Sorry, guys!
I didn't get it!
1 - if smbody sends battle cruisers then - should it be that I'm destroying them or they're destroying something and then how much defenses should I have or fleet on my planet
or if they gonna send battle cruisers on the empty planet it still counts the moon shot?
2 - esp. probes - is it still smbody's sends it to my planet (cause I never seen esp. probes destroyed during esp. mission)
or I should build esp. probes, then still how big fleet smbody should send to me to destroy all my 900 esp. probes and withstand my defenses?
Re: Moons Explained
#12Alright, lets try again. If you want a moonshot sent AT you, then you have to have enough defenses to destroy the ATTACKING fleet. They send 50 battleships AT you, and you have enough defenses to destroy the attacking fleet. That's how that works.
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Re: Moons Explained
#13OK!
Thank you, got it!
Just to be clear - esp. probes -
does smbody should send em to me with attack mission as well?
or in the case of esp. probes - I just build em and smbody should be sure to destroy em all near my planet?
Thank you, got it!
Just to be clear - esp. probes -
does smbody should send em to me with attack mission as well?
or in the case of esp. probes - I just build em and smbody should be sure to destroy em all near my planet?
Re: Moons Explained
#15What about jump gates? Can my alliance members or alliance allies use my gate?
Re: Moons Explained
#19There was some discussion of “safest” verses “cheapest” methods of moon creation. To get a 19% chance of moon formation, at least 1,900,000 units of debris must be created in a single battle around your planet. This debris can come from the attacking fleet being destroyed or your fleet around the planet being destroyed. I put together some numbers on what it would take to get that sort of battle outcome.
Example 1: Solar Satellites. Each satellite creates 30 metal & 300 crystal when destroyed, thus a person needs 5758 satellites be destroyed to create 1,900,140 units of debris. This is the “safest” way to form a moon, in that none of the attacking fleet needs to be destroyed and you are more likely to get someone to attack you if you can guarantee it will not harm them. Use your battle simulator to determine the size of the fleet needed to knock out 5758 SS’s; it will be more than 60 battleships most likely.
Cost: This is the most expensive of the three examples I have. Each SS costs 50 metal – 500 crystal – 250 deuterium, so your expense is 287,900 metal – 2,879,000 crystal – 1,439,500 deuterium. That is a total of 4,606,400 units of resource. Another way to look at that is the ‘merchants price’ in which 4 metal is worth 2 crystal or worth 1 deuterium. This adjusted cost would be 11,803,900 units of resource.
Example 2: Espionage Probes. Each probe creates 240 metal & 1800 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 932 probes to be destroyed to create 1,901,280 units of debris. This example has the benefit of either having your probes destroyed at your planet or a “friends” probes sent to attack you. If you let your 932 probes be destroyed, it is fairly “safe” for the attacking fleet. In fact a fleet of 25 or so battleships would be able to do this, assuming there was not much defense around the planet. If you can convince a friend to attack you with 932 probes, you need a fleet in place or at least 20 rocket launchers, 20 light lasers, 20 heavy lasers, 5 gauss cannon, a small & large shield to be sure the probes are all destroyed before the computer declares a tie and sends the survivors home. Again, use your battle simulator to figure this out.
Cost: This example is middle of the road. Each E.Probe cost 400 metal – 3000 crystal – 200 deuterium, so your expense is 372,800 metal – 2,796,000 crystal – 186,400 deuterium. That is a total of 3,355,200 units of resource. The merchants adjusted price would be 6,710,400 units of resource.
Example 3: Battleships. Each ship creates 30,000 metal & 6000 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 53 battleships to be blown up in orbit to create 1,908,000 units of debris. This is not “safe” since 53 battleships have a tendency to do some damage before they can be blown to pieces. However it is the most cost effective, for you. You still need to convince a friend to write off 53 ships for your sake. You also better be sure you have defenses in place to take down a fleet of that size.
Cost: Battleships have the highest ratio of metal to crystal to deuterium (5:1:0) and so are the most cost efficient to destroy. Each ship cost 50,000 metal – 10,000 crystal, so your expense is 2,650,000 metal – 530,000 crystal. That is a total of 3,180,000 units of resource. The merchant adjusted price would be 3,710,000. And of course this is not a price you pay, whoever is attacking (and loosing) is paying this price.
Example 1: Solar Satellites. Each satellite creates 30 metal & 300 crystal when destroyed, thus a person needs 5758 satellites be destroyed to create 1,900,140 units of debris. This is the “safest” way to form a moon, in that none of the attacking fleet needs to be destroyed and you are more likely to get someone to attack you if you can guarantee it will not harm them. Use your battle simulator to determine the size of the fleet needed to knock out 5758 SS’s; it will be more than 60 battleships most likely.
Cost: This is the most expensive of the three examples I have. Each SS costs 50 metal – 500 crystal – 250 deuterium, so your expense is 287,900 metal – 2,879,000 crystal – 1,439,500 deuterium. That is a total of 4,606,400 units of resource. Another way to look at that is the ‘merchants price’ in which 4 metal is worth 2 crystal or worth 1 deuterium. This adjusted cost would be 11,803,900 units of resource.
Example 2: Espionage Probes. Each probe creates 240 metal & 1800 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 932 probes to be destroyed to create 1,901,280 units of debris. This example has the benefit of either having your probes destroyed at your planet or a “friends” probes sent to attack you. If you let your 932 probes be destroyed, it is fairly “safe” for the attacking fleet. In fact a fleet of 25 or so battleships would be able to do this, assuming there was not much defense around the planet. If you can convince a friend to attack you with 932 probes, you need a fleet in place or at least 20 rocket launchers, 20 light lasers, 20 heavy lasers, 5 gauss cannon, a small & large shield to be sure the probes are all destroyed before the computer declares a tie and sends the survivors home. Again, use your battle simulator to figure this out.
Cost: This example is middle of the road. Each E.Probe cost 400 metal – 3000 crystal – 200 deuterium, so your expense is 372,800 metal – 2,796,000 crystal – 186,400 deuterium. That is a total of 3,355,200 units of resource. The merchants adjusted price would be 6,710,400 units of resource.
Example 3: Battleships. Each ship creates 30,000 metal & 6000 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 53 battleships to be blown up in orbit to create 1,908,000 units of debris. This is not “safe” since 53 battleships have a tendency to do some damage before they can be blown to pieces. However it is the most cost effective, for you. You still need to convince a friend to write off 53 ships for your sake. You also better be sure you have defenses in place to take down a fleet of that size.
Cost: Battleships have the highest ratio of metal to crystal to deuterium (5:1:0) and so are the most cost efficient to destroy. Each ship cost 50,000 metal – 10,000 crystal, so your expense is 2,650,000 metal – 530,000 crystal. That is a total of 3,180,000 units of resource. The merchant adjusted price would be 3,710,000. And of course this is not a price you pay, whoever is attacking (and loosing) is paying this price.
Re: Moons Explained
#20[quote="a5climber"]There was some discussion of “safest” verses “cheapest” methods of moon creation. To get a 19% chance of moon formation, at least 1,900,000 units of debris must be created in a single battle around your planet. This debris can come from the attacking fleet being destroyed or your fleet around the planet being destroyed. I put together some numbers on what it would take to get that sort of battle outcome.
Example 1: Solar Satellites. Each satellite creates 30 metal & 300 crystal when destroyed, thus a person needs 5758 satellites be destroyed to create 1,900,140 units of debris. This is the “safest” way to form a moon, in that none of the attacking fleet needs to be destroyed and you are more likely to get someone to attack you if you can guarantee it will not harm them. Use your battle simulator to determine the size of the fleet needed to knock out 5758 SS’s; it will be more than 60 battleships most likely.
Cost: This is the most expensive of the three examples I have. Each SS costs 50 metal – 500 crystal – 250 deuterium, so your expense is 287,900 metal – 2,879,000 crystal – 1,439,500 deuterium. That is a total of 4,606,400 units of resource. Another way to look at that is the ‘merchants price’ in which 4 metal is worth 2 crystal or worth 1 deuterium. This adjusted cost would be 11,803,900 units of resource.
Example 2: Espionage Probes. Each probe creates 240 metal & 1800 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 932 probes to be destroyed to create 1,901,280 units of debris. This example has the benefit of either having your probes destroyed at your planet or a “friends” probes sent to attack you. If you let your 932 probes be destroyed, it is fairly “safe” for the attacking fleet. In fact a fleet of 25 or so battleships would be able to do this, assuming there was not much defense around the planet. If you can convince a friend to attack you with 932 probes, you need a fleet in place or at least 20 rocket launchers, 20 light lasers, 20 heavy lasers, 5 gauss cannon, a small & large shield to be sure the probes are all destroyed before the computer declares a tie and sends the survivors home. Again, use your battle simulator to figure this out.
Cost: This example is middle of the road. Each E.Probe cost 400 metal – 3000 crystal – 200 deuterium, so your expense is 372,800 metal – 2,796,000 crystal – 186,400 deuterium. That is a total of 3,355,200 units of resource. The merchants adjusted price would be 6,710,400 units of resource.
Example 3: Battleships. Each ship creates 30,000 metal & 6000 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 53 battleships to be blown up in orbit to create 1,908,000 units of debris. This is not “safe” since 53 battleships have a tendency to do some damage before they can be blown to pieces. However it is the most cost effective, for you. You still need to convince a friend to write off 53 ships for your sake. You also better be sure you have defenses in place to take down a fleet of that size.
Cost: Battleships have the highest ratio of metal to crystal to deuterium (5:1:0) and so are the most cost efficient to destroy. Each ship cost 50,000 metal – 10,000 crystal, so your expense is 2,650,000 metal – 530,000 crystal. That is a total of 3,180,000 units of resource. The merchant adjusted price would be 3,710,000. And of course this is not a price you pay, whoever is attacking (and loosing) is paying this price.[/quote]
An important point to remember is that it is impossible to recycle deut because it is not part of a debris field so any ship that has deut in the cost of production will always cost more to do a moon shot with than a ship that does not require deut to build. Also because the total debris field needed is fix and because crystal is worth more than metal and the ratio of metal to crystal used to build the ship will indicate more accurately the actual cost of the moon shot.
eg. A battleship has a metal to crystal ratio of 5:1 and the large cargo has a ratio of 1:1 you will therefore loose 5 times less crystal than metal with a battleship compared to equal amounts of metal and crystal with large cargos.
here are some numbers assuming you recover the debris field and ignoring the cost to collect the debris field because that changes with distance.
with battleships you will loose 1.060.000 units of metal and 312.000 units of crystal which when converted based on a standard 3:2:1 trade ratio results in a total loss of 1.484.000 units of metal
With large cargos you will loose 636.000 units of metal and 636.000 units of crystal which when converted based on a standard 3:2:1 trade ratio results in a total loss of 1.908.000 units of metal
Another important point is that if you are worried about loosing a few solar sats and/or light lasers then you are probably not big enough to be doing a moon shot anyway, but that is just my opinion.
Example 1: Solar Satellites. Each satellite creates 30 metal & 300 crystal when destroyed, thus a person needs 5758 satellites be destroyed to create 1,900,140 units of debris. This is the “safest” way to form a moon, in that none of the attacking fleet needs to be destroyed and you are more likely to get someone to attack you if you can guarantee it will not harm them. Use your battle simulator to determine the size of the fleet needed to knock out 5758 SS’s; it will be more than 60 battleships most likely.
Cost: This is the most expensive of the three examples I have. Each SS costs 50 metal – 500 crystal – 250 deuterium, so your expense is 287,900 metal – 2,879,000 crystal – 1,439,500 deuterium. That is a total of 4,606,400 units of resource. Another way to look at that is the ‘merchants price’ in which 4 metal is worth 2 crystal or worth 1 deuterium. This adjusted cost would be 11,803,900 units of resource.
Example 2: Espionage Probes. Each probe creates 240 metal & 1800 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 932 probes to be destroyed to create 1,901,280 units of debris. This example has the benefit of either having your probes destroyed at your planet or a “friends” probes sent to attack you. If you let your 932 probes be destroyed, it is fairly “safe” for the attacking fleet. In fact a fleet of 25 or so battleships would be able to do this, assuming there was not much defense around the planet. If you can convince a friend to attack you with 932 probes, you need a fleet in place or at least 20 rocket launchers, 20 light lasers, 20 heavy lasers, 5 gauss cannon, a small & large shield to be sure the probes are all destroyed before the computer declares a tie and sends the survivors home. Again, use your battle simulator to figure this out.
Cost: This example is middle of the road. Each E.Probe cost 400 metal – 3000 crystal – 200 deuterium, so your expense is 372,800 metal – 2,796,000 crystal – 186,400 deuterium. That is a total of 3,355,200 units of resource. The merchants adjusted price would be 6,710,400 units of resource.
Example 3: Battleships. Each ship creates 30,000 metal & 6000 crystal debris when destroyed, thus a person needs 53 battleships to be blown up in orbit to create 1,908,000 units of debris. This is not “safe” since 53 battleships have a tendency to do some damage before they can be blown to pieces. However it is the most cost effective, for you. You still need to convince a friend to write off 53 ships for your sake. You also better be sure you have defenses in place to take down a fleet of that size.
Cost: Battleships have the highest ratio of metal to crystal to deuterium (5:1:0) and so are the most cost efficient to destroy. Each ship cost 50,000 metal – 10,000 crystal, so your expense is 2,650,000 metal – 530,000 crystal. That is a total of 3,180,000 units of resource. The merchant adjusted price would be 3,710,000. And of course this is not a price you pay, whoever is attacking (and loosing) is paying this price.[/quote]
An important point to remember is that it is impossible to recycle deut because it is not part of a debris field so any ship that has deut in the cost of production will always cost more to do a moon shot with than a ship that does not require deut to build. Also because the total debris field needed is fix and because crystal is worth more than metal and the ratio of metal to crystal used to build the ship will indicate more accurately the actual cost of the moon shot.
eg. A battleship has a metal to crystal ratio of 5:1 and the large cargo has a ratio of 1:1 you will therefore loose 5 times less crystal than metal with a battleship compared to equal amounts of metal and crystal with large cargos.
here are some numbers assuming you recover the debris field and ignoring the cost to collect the debris field because that changes with distance.
with battleships you will loose 1.060.000 units of metal and 312.000 units of crystal which when converted based on a standard 3:2:1 trade ratio results in a total loss of 1.484.000 units of metal
With large cargos you will loose 636.000 units of metal and 636.000 units of crystal which when converted based on a standard 3:2:1 trade ratio results in a total loss of 1.908.000 units of metal
Another important point is that if you are worried about loosing a few solar sats and/or light lasers then you are probably not big enough to be doing a moon shot anyway, but that is just my opinion.